Interview With....

MICHAEL CHEIKA

Bob Dwyer: Ireland were Grand Slam champions last season in the northern hemisphere. How do you see their immediate future in the light of that success?

Michael Cheika: They’re going quite well at the moment. They have still got the quality players they always had but where they used to be vulnerable to the rigours of provincial and international rugby because their playing base was comparatively small, now they have replacements in every position. If they’re not right up to the task in some cases, they’re close to it.  There are a few question marks in the front row where a player like Ciaran Healy of Leinster has been on a natural learning curve.  Tom Court of Ulster is another, plus Jonathan Sexton, our fly half, are also guys who will probably get game time during the autumn internationals, if not against Australia and South Africa then against Fiji.

So there are many more options and part of that is down to the success of the Irish provincial sides in competitions like the Heineken Cup. Also, another important point is that a third of our squad at Leinster is now from our Academy, and that is always our target going forward. You will always need to recruit some overseas players but if you can also develop your own players alongside them, that is the ideal situation.

BD:  Ireland, and indeed Munster and Leinster, with their comparatively tiny player base,  are at the very top of European rugby. Can you put your finger on what it is that has put them there?

MC: Just a hunger for it, I think. They want to be successful and punch above their weight and as far as playing numbers are concerned they have pushed to have good sized squads in place with the right sort of balance. You need the right number of good quality foreigners in your squad because that allows you to help your local players to develop whilst you remain competitive with the best teams in Europe. So you can say it is partly because of an era that produced good Irish players but also because of a strong desire to achieve on a regular basis. We (the overseas coaches) have tried to add to that, an environment of being successful week in, week out, of not being satisfied by one success. So we have tried to keep the winning ethos, in both the Heineken Cup and the Magners League.  That winning culture is all about wanting to do it every day, not just match day but in training too. Munster has done it and I think we have done it too at Leinster.

Now, the pressure will start to come on the next generation of players to maintain it.  That’s not an easy thing to do but it’s good for Irish rugby that sort of challenge is being laid down to the newcomers.

BD: What sort of an opportunity does it offer the national team?

MC: Well, if expectations are realistic, there is certainly an opportunity there for them to kick on. They have to keep the balance right between the provincial sides and the international team and its demands. But if they can do it, the prospects all round are very good.

BD: Do Ireland have an advantage in that the Union funds the provincial sides whereas in England, the clubs are run and financed by individual owners perhaps with a different agenda to the national Union and the England team?

MC: Well, clearly there are the two ways of doing it. Personally, I think both can work at the end of the day because there is always a governing body giving clear guidelines as to what it requires. If that is the case, it isn’t necessarily a disadvantage to have the clubs financed by outsiders. As long as everyone knows those guidelines that have  been laid down, it shouldn’t  be a problem or disadvantage.

BD:  But don’t the Unions always want more of the players?

MC:  There is that issue and we fight against it every day.  We want our players to be available for Leinster not least because if the provincial sides are without their best players and therefore are not successful. It is very  hard for the national team to be successful. If the English or French clubs are not successful in Europe, I can’t see their national teams managing to have good seasons.

BD: Why not?

MC:  Because it’s about stepping stones.  If you go to one level and are successful you then want to go to the next level, but in doing so you want to remain successful. You need your best players available to achieve this. By doing this, you will also build your base of potential players for the international squad, perhaps from 15 or 20 up to 30 which I think is now the situation in Ireland. And for sure you need that bigger base for international rugby nowadays.

BD: Ireland plays Australia, Fiji and South Africa in Dublin this autumn. How do you rate their chances?

MC: There are some very high quality players in the Irish team, there’s no doubting that. So their prospects are very good.  It’s obviously going to be a tough first match against Australia, and then they may blood some new players against Fiji, without of course taking them lightly.

But I think Ireland have the ability to beat all of them if they are ready to go. They are going to  have to peak really well for the two big games and they won’t  succeed if they start thinking about South Africa before they have played Australia and Fiji. But if they work hard they have a big chance not least because Croke Park, with 80,000 fanatical Irishmen, is  a tough place to go for  any opposition. There will be more emotion there than ever this year because the new Lansdowne Road is almost ready and this is the last season of fixtures at Croke Park.

BD: When Ireland played New Zealand in Dublin last year, you got the distinct feeling that they never quite believed they could beat the All Blacks. Is there a danger it will be the same this time against the Springboks?

MC: No, I don’t think so. It shouldn’t be that way, that’s for sure. There is no reason for Ireland to be like that because they have some quality players most of whom have got used to winning. They have won Heineken Cups, Magners League titles and now Ireland has won a Grand Slam. All that success has happened recently so the players have had that experience of winning. So there should be no shortage of self belief there. Of course, you have still got to go out and perform on the day but there isn’t any reason whatsoever why the Irish players can’t do that, even against the world champions. You have just got to remember what got you those victories in the first place. But the fact is, the Ireland players are good enough, that’s not in doubt.

BD: So going forward, how do you see Ireland performing this year and in the next couple of years leading up to the 2011 Rugby World Cup ?

MC: Well, I have to say, I thought they were good enough to do well before the 2007 World Cup. But it turned out, they didn’t have the player base then and the preparation was totally wrong. Two years before that World Cup, there was a lot of control and manipulation down towards the provinces over those crucial years.

BD: Who did it come from?

MC: From Ireland’s international coach at the time. It dissipated all the way down and he was pretty controlling in what he was doing at the time. So it will be interesting to see how it pushes on....the system from above....from beyond this moment. If they (the national coaches) stay cool and trust the provinces to keep the players in good shape and on the right track mentally, then I think Ireland can be very successful.

BD: How do you rate the southern hemisphere nations at the moment and how do you assess the gap between the northern and southern hemispheres ?

MC: I thought the South Africans prospered from the northern hemisphere referees they had in the Tri-Nations this year. They are so powerful and skilful but there was far too much kicking in their game. When the South Africans want to run, they are awesome yet they didn’t do it much. New Zealand ran the ball the most of everybody but the South Africans, despite their high skill levels, seemed to have this fear of losing. But they have that extra gear in them although having said that, I think the gap between the northern and southern hemisphere teams is probably closer now than ever before.

The northern hemisphere is improving every year its physicality and ability at the set pieces and the breakdowns. In the end, many of these autumn Test matches will probably come down to the power at the breakdown. As for the breakdown itself, of course it’s a mess but then,  I remember from when I was playing, it was a mess then. If that part of the game ever got cleaned up, it would be an awesome game, even more than now because it would be so fast and exciting.

The northern hemisphere teams are certainly good enough to be successful and remember, this is their time of the year.  The southern hemisphere sides should be a bit weary after long seasons. Maybe with a bit more self belief, the northern hemisphere sides might go to the next step. For example, Wales are a great team when they play and really get going. In that mood, they are so hard to stop so there is no reason why they can’t do it. It is about believing. Sure, against all the best teams, you have to survive their periods of pressure and supremacy during a game. But if you’re a good side yourself and well organised, there isn’t any reason why you shouldn’t be able to do that.

It will be interesting to see whether the northern hemisphere teams can take that extra step up this autumn.”