Interview With....

Phil Kearns is one tough hombre. The former Wallaby hooker played 67 tests, including 10 as captain and finished with a winning percentage of around 75. He started in 65 of his test matches and scored eight test match tries. After he made his debut against the All Blacks In Auckland on 5 August, 1989, Phil played a major role in the Wallabies outstanding success rate throughout the 1990s. In his first test, opposing hooker, Sean Fitzpatrick, told him to “go back to your mummy.” The 182 cms, 110 kgs hooker never forgot this insult, and just a year later when the Wallabies ended the New Zealanders 23 test winning streak, he returned serve to Fitzpatrick. In bleak, wet and windy conditions, the Wallabies won 21-9 with Phil scoring the only try of the match. As soon as it had been awarded, he gave the opposition forwards and Fitzpatrick in particular, a two fingered salute, saying “Have a nice day boys.” After the match, when asked about his gesture, he smiled and said, “I was just telling the All Blacks that I wanted two sausages at tonight's barbecue.”

Phil was a member of three World Cup teams,  winning two in 1991 and 1999. He played against the All Blacks in 18 tests and was on the winning side no less than 10 times. Altogether, he played test rugby against 15 nations and was in the Rest of the World side that took on the All Blacks in their Centenary celebrations of 1992. Along with props Tony Daly and Ewen McKenzie, he formed a Wallaby front row which was regarded by most as the world's best front row at the time, while he was recognised at the world's best hooker.

In provincial rugby, Phil won 73 caps for New South Wales, scoring five tries.

Today Phil works with the Investec Bank, while he is a regular and popular rugby commentator for the Fox cable network and has been for 10 years or more. He remains one of the most respected identities throughout the rugby world, just as he was in his playing days. Now 42 years of age, Phil and his wife Julie, live in the Sydney suburb of Mosman and have four children. Barry Ross caught up with Phil last week and asked his views on the Wallabies performances this year and their future development.

BR- Do the Wallabies have the players and the ability to do better than they did in this year's Tri-nations tournament?
PK- We definitely have the ability but don't have the maturity or leadership as yet. However these things are developing. By leadership I don't necessarily mean captaincy. It is important for all teams that they have several experienced and mature players to guide their younger team-mates in both on and off field situations. The Wallabies do have some of these but basically they are a young side and need some more time.

BR-If you were coaching or leading the team, would you do anything differently?
PK- Their tactics are ok, but they are not executing them well. I am sure in their last match with the All Blacks (in Wellington on 19 September), it wasn't the plan to have the forwards in the backline not doing anything. Before you move the ball wide, you have to go forward. They did this in the excellent  21-6 win against the Springboks in Brisbane on 5 September, but did not play the same in the All Blacks match.

BR- Would you make any selection changes?
PK- I am not sure about this and I would need to think longer before giving a definite answer. But I will say Richard Brown and Wyclif Palu were well below their 2008 form this year. In my opinion this is one of the main reasons coach Robbie Deans has used George Smith at number eight. If Brown and Palu were playing as well as they were last year, Robbie would not have moved George from number seven. On saying this, I am not criticising George, who I feel has played well all year. The injury to centre and captain, Stirling Mortlock has also created some problems for the Wallabies.

BR- What is Matt Giteau's best position has been a major talking point for some time now. Where would you play him?
PK-I would play Giteau at number 12, where he would have more room. I would move Berrick Barnes inside him, to number 10.

BR- As Wallaby coach, Robbie Deans has only 13 wins from 23 games, for a success rate of 57 percent. Should his hold on the coaching position be examined?
PK- I have no doubt that he is the man for the job. He is trying to build maturity in the team. Players do not learn maturity around the training paddock, they have to play against quality opposition. Tim Horan (80 tests) and Jason Little (75 tests) were not only exceptional world class players, they were mature at 21. But not everyone is the same. Some players do not reach the necessary maturity level until 25 or so.

BR-The All Blacks really dominated the Wallabies in the rucking situation and while the South Africans haven't used this much in the past, are very good at it now. Is rucking a key part of the game again?
PK- It should always be an important part of a rugby game. The All Blacks sent at least five players into every breakdown, while the Wallabies often only had a couple and sometimes one of the two was a smaller back.

BR- So you are saying the Wallabies do not commit enough forwards to the tackle area?
PK- Absolutely, that is the case.

BR-What are your thoughts on the Wallaby scrum?
PK- It is going really well. There is no doubt of that from their nine test matches they have played so far this year. Loosehead Benn Robinson is the difference. He is definitely a world class player.
BR- What about the Wallaby hooker, who is your preference?

PK- Tatafu Polota-Nau is the man. His scrummaging has improved out of sight, while his work rate around the field is very high. He doesn't think about his body and in Brisbane in the win over the South Africans on 5 September, he played a vital role. Crashing into the rucks in Brisbane he was devastating and I believe the South Africans were scared of him.

BR- Is the Wallaby lineout up to the mark?
PK- We certainly miss Dan Vickerman. We haven't got any real tall blokes around the six foot seven mark (200 cms), like the South African duo of Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha.

BR- Are there any fringe players on the Australian scene that you feel might be up to it, if given the chance?
PK- No, I don't think there are too many, although I must say, I have not analysed this too closely. We have injured men such as the Brumby Peter Kimlin and Cameron Shepherd from the Force. Of course they both have played at test level, but they would certainly strengthen the Wallaby squad, if they were available. Young Brumby back Matt Toomua at 19, is a player of the future, but he is still a long way from Giteau or Barnes.

BR- There are many who say club rugby is not getting the support from the top that it deserves. What are your thoughts on this?
PK- I am a big supporter of club rugby and I believe Robbie Deans is also keen on it. He encourages the Wallabies to play for their clubs whenever they are able to do so. He has a genuine feel for the game, not only at international level.  Some players go straight from schoolboy football to playing Super rugby and I don't believe this is good for them or the game.

BR- The Wallabies have five more tests to play in 2009. They go to Tokyo for another Bledisloe Cup clash with the All Blacks on 31 October and then fly to Britain and Ireland. They will attempt to repeat the feat of Alan Jones' 1984 Wallabies by winning the Grand Slam against England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Can they do this?
PK- I will be surprised if they do. But I still believe they can win the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand.

BR- Who are the teams to beat on this Grand Slam tour?
PK- Ireland and Wales will both be tough, while England at home will be strong. The Poms will select a big forward pack. In fact, looking at things at the moment, you would pick the biggest backs as well as the biggest forwards you have, to play the current Wallaby team.

BR- How do yo see the Waratahs performing in next year's Super Rugby tournament?
PK- Missing out on Rocky Elsom was a big blow, while Timana Tahu returning to league was another loss. I think that next year Timana would do really well in our game. I also believe that Kurtley Beale will do well in 2010.  The forwards are going to have to lift a little and someone will really have to step up. Wyclif Palu for example, could be the player to do this.

BR- Finally is the fact that the Waratahs and the Brumbies seem to have conquered the market in regard to signing the best players, good for Australian rugby generally?
PK- I don't think it is a concern. A franchise or a club attracts players for certain reasons. Both the Western Force and the Queensland Reds have coaching and administration issues. The players know who the good coaches are. They discuss this and other things amongst themselves. It is up to the others to reach the standard of the successful clubs.